Raimondo On The Attack?

TV ads (0.00 / 0)

About everything is fair in love, war, and politics.  And I do think Tony has a legitimate grounds for playing up his career as a businessman who has created jobs for Nebraskans...much as Bob Kerrey did 25 years ago.

I am supporting Kleeb, but I am not sure that Raimondo might not be the stronger candidate in the fall.  The ultimate goal is to elect a Democrat.  Even if he hasn't been one for a long time...

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by: barbqbill @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:08:42 PM CDT

I don't see it. (0.00 / 0)

I just don't see an attack.  

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by: Lisa Hannah @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:12:26 PM CDT

It's mild, to be sure... (0.00 / 0)

But the clear reference to Kleeb is there, and "academic" is definitely used as a pejorative term. It's not a mudslinging ad by any means, or even a negative ad, but I don't think I'm wrong in suggesting that he's attacking Kleeb as an "academic."

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by: Dave Sund @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:22:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I see it as a tailored (0.00 / 0)

version of "elitist."

Which, when used by one politician against another it pretty much is a smear. Raimondo's saying "Scott Kleeb Thinks He's Smarter Than You" with the pejorative "academic" label. Scott does have a PhD in History, though to me that's a pretty big bonus. His other credentials are outstanding as well.

That said, I somehow doubt Kleeb is of the mind that he's smarter than everyone else, as experience is not "smartness."

Et habeas ibi hoc breve.

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by: Thomas Boyko @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 20:25:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not to mention (0.00 / 0)

Ge spouts it off as though it was preposterous any "real American" would ever go post-graduate.

Et habeas ibi hoc breve.

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by: Thomas Boyko @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 20:29:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Typical Republican Smear? (4.00 / 1)

For the love of God, Dave, don't you think that's just a little bit over the top?

Raimondo is being dismissive towards Kleeb by calling him an "academic," but that's pretty far removed from the real attacks Kleeb faced in 2006 and would face again from Mike Johanns.  Kleeb has already attacked Raimondo for his ties to the Republican Party in e-mails to supporters, and he's welcome to campaign on that theme if he really thinks its productive or persuasive.  I'm not convninced.

Raimondo is in no worse position than Kleeb establishing a contrast with Johanns as a politician.  Raimondo might even be in a stronger position since he's never before sought elected office.  If it's a contrast in deep philosophical principles that voters are looking for, then Kleeb probably does pose more of a contrast with Johanns but he isn't campaigning as if that's the case.

Personally, I'm just glad to see that someone's really willing to take on Johanns.  Anyone who imagines Raimondo as the enemy at this stage in the campaign simply doesn't get it.

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by: Kyle Michaelis @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:18:13 PM CDT

You're right... (0.00 / 0)

"smear" is over the top. Not the message I wanted to get across at all.  

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by: Dave Sund @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 19:23:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe not a smear, (0.00 / 0)

but it is a typical Republican attack on "those liberal university professors" that I hear Rush go off on every so often. He isn't just painting Kleeb as an elitist, but as out of touch with the needs of regular people.

What will be interesting (I think) will be how Kleeb responds. Raimondo is running a pretty clear series of ads to introduce himself, and while we don't know how effective they are yet, my hunch is that with each one that comes out, he is pulling the margin closer and closer.  

http://www.midwestdemocrat.com

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by: HeartLandDemocrat @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 21:49:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

2010 (0.00 / 0)

Dave, was it you that had the idea of running Raimondo in the 3rd CD in a couple of years against Adrian Smith?  I love the idea, I could really get behind him if we did that.

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by: Phil Montag @ Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 20:26:09 PM CDT

Is it a smear if it is true? (0.00 / 0)

Is Scott not an academic?

Also, does anyone really believe Scott isn't going to call Tony a "Republican" in his ads? He's done so in his emails, newsletters and solicitations, hasn't he?

It would be convenient and disingenuous for the Kleeb campaign to point to this ad as the "first shot" in an already negative campaign being waged by Kleeb.

If tony really wanted to go negative, he'd run an ad where he continuously pulls up to "Scott" on the side of the road and offered him a ride - with the US Capitol off in the distance.

That would be negative. Let's keep things in perspective.

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by: bruin606 @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:20:19 AM CDT

Calling a spade . . . a spade. (0.00 / 0)

If Scott makes a point of calling Tony a Republican, the facts support him. If Tony calls Scott a highly educated academic, the facts support him.

The idea that being well educated is somehow less honorable than having a well documented history of Republican activism and corporate support comes, without a doubt, directly from the Republican playbook.

Bruin, in your hypothetical ad you'd have to have Tony offering Scott a ride to Washington in Behlen's corporate jet, just as he has done on so many occasions for his BFF Ben.

Now before the Nattering Nabobs of Negativism jump all over me for apparently dissing a "Democratic" candidate, I will point out that the rule applies only to the "nominee" of our party. Personally, I don't consider the "anointment" of one Democratic candidate over another by those in the proverbial smoke-filled room to be binding.

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by: BTOz @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 11:34:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Calling a player a ... player (0.00 / 0)

and Btox - thanks for putting words in my mouth to prop up some fake argument you want to start with me. I'll pass. But nice try at restructuring the comparison in the ad - though its disingenuous. I'm not defending Tony or his ad - just pointing out it's hardly negative. But since so many here have considered any question of other candidates "negative" the whining doesn't surprise me.

Using the plane in the ad doesn't hit the "negative" message - its about the fact Scott can't drive in NE (or in any state for that matter). Maybe you don't get it.

I don't know why you repeatedly bring the Behlen plane issue up - since its right out of the Republican attack playbook you often decry. They use it against Nelson - and so do you!

Oh I get it, ONLY YOU can use the republican play book. Note: Hypocrisy has its own chapter in the Republican Play book - as you obviously know.

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by: bruin606 @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:49:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Geez Bruin (0.00 / 0)

Are your hemorrhoids always tied into such tight knots?

What words did I put in your mouth? Stop abusing the over the counter medications for Christ's sake. I know that Scott has had his lead boots confiscated, you haven't discovered America there. The "Behlen plane issue" is an issue because . . . well, because it IS an issue - just as the InfoUSA plane IS an issue with the Clintons and Vin Gupta - just as the Hensley plane IS an issue with John McCain.

I don't use the Republican play book, and I don't use the Democratic playbook (just ask Kyle about that!), I use my own damned book and it really doesn't bother me that it bothers you, or anyone else. I just call 'em as I see 'em. If a Democrat is doing something I'd hold a Republican's feet to the fire for, then so be it, I'll call him on it.

What's right is right, what's wrong is wrong; party affiliation doesn't blind me to that fact. I just prefer to believe that Democrats generally do what it right, and it really pisses me off when I find instances where that doesn't hold true.

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by: BTOz @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 18:45:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The words (0.00 / 0)

What I was referring to Tox, was the line about "The idea that being well educated is somehow less honorable than having a well documented history of Republican activism and corporate support comes, without a doubt, directly from the Republican play book."

I never said that. And as far as I can tell Tony's ad doesn't say that. The same line is what I was referring to when I said you were falsly reconstructing the comparison.

Repeating the plane attack on Nelson - when it has repeatedly been proven to be false - is straight out of the Republican Play book. You may play by your own book, but when the tactics are the same I "just call 'em as I see 'em."

And I can't believe I forgot that you have anointed yourself the  deemer of "what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong."

Go ahead, claim the moral high ground and keep repeating Republican lies - it's what the republicans would want you to do.

It's in their bylaws, I believe.

And I apologize to everyone reading for allowing myself to take Btox's bait. I resisted, I really did.

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by: bruin606 @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:21:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Try Preparation H® (4.00 / 1)

Good grief! Bruin, you are capable of creating controversy out of thin air, then expecting everyone to feel sorry for you.

My statement about "education is somehow less honorable" was a reference to how I perceived Mr. Raimondo's words. Don't give yourself credit where it isn't due. I believe that I am still entitled to an opinion that hasn't been passed through your PC filter.

Are you saying Sen. N has NEVER accepted flights on the Behlen birdy? I beg to differ, as have other sources.

As for my view of what is right and what is wrong, I believe my opinion in that regard is still mine to have and hold. I don't need your permission to state my views in that regard.

If you don't like taking the bait, quit acting like a fish in a barrel.

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by: BTOz @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:07:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Get your facts straight Brian (0.00 / 0)

Look if you are going to repeat tired old attacks from the republican Party, you can't go around criticizing others when you perceive they do it. The Republican Play book is the Republican Play book - and you use it.

As for Ben on Tony's plane - I never said nelson NEVER accepted flights on the plane. But nice try at redefining your Republican attack.

of course he has been on that plane. It's reported on his FEC filings. YOU are implying wrongdoing when in fact, no wrongdoing was found. In fact, Nelson has complied with ALL federal laws with regard to use of the plane.

But go ahead - Don't let those facts get in the way of continuously bringing it up in your uniquely snide way and imply without basis of fact, just as the republican play book calls for, that something fishy is going on. Next thing you know you'll accuse Nelson of being Muslim.

None of this changes the fact that Tony's ad doesn't attack teachers.

And what is with your obsession with my rectum? Please stop. It's creeping me out.

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by: bruin606 @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:52:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Facts (0.00 / 0)

The inconvenient truth of facts seems to be getting your bowels in an uproar Bruin (notice that I'm moving on up the gastrointestinal tract just to keep you from creeping out, but that'll probably get you just as upset- try Imodium)

I don't even own a Republican playbook Bruin, so how is it that I could use it? Talk about putting words in other people's mouths, I don't believe I ever said that YOU were the one to bring up Behlen's bird, but you defend yourself as though I had, unless of course, you are Tony or Ben - that would explain a lot of things. Talk about switching the bait.

That Benny "has complied with ALL the federal laws with regard to use of the plane" might make it legal, but my question is, "Is it ethical?" In MY book, no it isn't. The influence that Mr. Raimondo gains by doing such favors for his good buddy is, in MY book, just plain wrong. You can point out all day long that it is legal, and I will point out all day long that Mr. Raimondo probably got something of value in return, if only access to Ben's ear for a few hours. That's something I know that most of us would never get without coughing up a few thousand dollars in cash or in kind donations. But that's kind of par for the course.

Just in case you might ask, my beef with politicians accepting rides on corporate aircraft is that the law requires them to pay for them at the rate of charter aircraft. That is even more expensive than first class rates. If it is for government purposes, that is an incredible waste of taxpayer money. If it is for campaign purposes, that is an incredible waste of the contibutors' money.

Now how is it that you can imply I'll make comments regarding Reverend Nelson's religion without putting words in MY mouth?

You don't see Mr. Raimondo's comments as demeaning to "academics." I do. Those are our perceptions, they are not facts. Don't let that stop you from stating your opinion as fact though. We wouldn't want to have to change our "opinions" of you.

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by: BTOz @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 16:32:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK Brian (0.00 / 0)

I'll take immodium after I take "head on."

Here's what you said:

Are you saying Sen. N has NEVER accepted flights on the Behlen birdy? I beg to differ, as have other sources

How could I possibly consider that comment to imply that I might think or try to convince others that Nelson has never been on Tony's plane?

As for the rest of the drivel above - put down the bottle.

I am not interested in your definition of ethics. And keep your mind off my body - sicko.

Now, according to the commercial, if apply this directly to my forehead you should go away...aaaah.

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by: bruin606 @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 23:16:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You'd like that. (0.00 / 0)

Sorry Bruin666, I'm not that easy to shake off. I know that you could give a rat's patoot . . .

(damn, biological references again . . . I guess I'll have to consult your psychiatrist to see what's wrong with me.. . . naaaaah . . . I think I'll just go pour another glass of wine)

                   . . . about my ethics, or anyone else's for that matter, and unless you are a good looking female I'm really not all that interested in your body either (strictly from an artistic point of view, of course).

Your belief that "Head On" actually works explains a lot about you. Thanks for clearing that up.

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by: BTOz @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 23:29:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Brewin' is stewin' -- again (4.00 / 1)

The idea that you "allow yourself to take [the] bait" is ludicrous.  It's hard for anybody else to get a post up with your constant hemorrhage of bad ideas and support for the policies that have laid Democrats low in this state.  Give it a rest.  Get a life.

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by: tomdorsch @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 13:35:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What are you talking about and who asked you? (0.00 / 0)

Scroll up TD - Btox came after me.

But of course you'd chime in with an unbiased personal attack right?

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by: bruin606 @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 23:11:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well... (0.00 / 0)

What I'm referring to is the implication that a teacher is something to be looked down upon. It's not really a smear against Scott - Scott is well educated, and does come from an educational background. His parents were teachers, and he's a teacher.

The "smear," if you really want to call it that, is against teachers - that these so-called "academics" don't really know how to fix the problems in Washington. That teachers are on the same level as politicians. That teachers are "out of touch."

What I've never understood about Raimondo's message is that it's centered on the false premise that we need more business experience in Washington. As if the Washington culture isn't already ruled by "businessmen" like Tony Raimondo.

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by: Dave Sund @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:03:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

that's a better argument (0.00 / 0)

much better argument on the ad content.

I see the Kleeb campaign wants this to be about an attack on teachers - its not - its a delineation about each candidates' background. If Scott was a State Senator Tony would probably call him a career politician. So what job description should be used for Scott? Perennial candidate?

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by: bruin606 @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:45:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

From a purely political standpoint... (0.00 / 0)

I absolutely understand the need for Raimondo to provide a contrast.

But from that same standpoint I hope you can see why a direct reference in a television ad is a little different than a fundraising appeal to supporters in scope and message.

Now, it was a pretty mild attack. As a purely political observation, it shows me that Raimondo feels the need to engage Kleeb because he's running behind Kleeb right now.

Kleeb is opening field offices in Omaha and Lincoln this week. To my knowledge, Raimondo's only office is in Columbus.  

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by: Dave Sund @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 13:33:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sure (0.00 / 0)

Sure the TV ad is different. it has a broader audience. But the message of Scott's emails has been fundamentally more negative - regardless of scope.

And I just ain't buying that the reference to Scott's current employment is a broad attack on all teachers. That's spin.

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by: bruin606 @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 13:52:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It isn't... (0.00 / 0)

But it is a direct reference to the fact that Scott Kleeb is a teacher, as a negative.

What I hope Scott does is turn that around - show how important education has been in his life, and how he hopes to prioritize education for the future of our state, to build and keep jobs here in Nebraska.  

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by: Dave Sund @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 18:21:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Damn lousy teachers . . . (0.00 / 0)

Who the hell do teachers think they are anyway? Just because they spend more time raising OUR children than WE do, just because they work eight hours a day then have to go home and do lesson plans and grade papers all night, just because they are way underpaid for what they do, just because they generally get roped into coaching some damned sport or taking tickets and chaperoning dances, etc... Don't they know that they surely haven't accumulated enough experience about the REAL world to be thinking that it suffices to represent US in Congress? Uppity damned egg heads!

My accomplice (I prefer that to "significant other") teaches K-12 art and Spanish in a rural community. She has worked her tail to the bone for years and I would venture to say that she knows more about people and the needs people have than anyone who's head has been buried in a corporate cloud for most of their lives. For Raimondo to dismiss Kleeb's academic background so cavalierly IS a disservice to the teaching profession. For Raimondo to dismiss Johanns' political career with such disdain is something a lot of NNN's readers, political science majors and future political hacks themselves, SHOULD be offended by.

Just because a person has decided to dedicate their lifetime to a position of service to their fellow man is hardly reason to downplay their abilities. What's next, are we going to claim that nurses, fire fighters, and those who serve in the military just don't have the skills to represent us in Congress because they haven't "met budgets" and "created jobs?"

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by: BTOz @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 19:01:47 PM CDT

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A rarity... (0.00 / 0)

I agree with BTOz.  Probably since I'm the product of two teachers.

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by: thefitzman1 @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 19:44:24 PM CDT

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I'm not offended (0.00 / 0)

I'm a political science major and I agree with Raimondo's stance with career politicians.  I don't like them as much as the next Average Joe Nebraska Tax Payer.  However there is a distinction between ones that have done their job while in office and ones that are quitters.  We all know that Johanns is a quitter but Obama is also a career politician but yet no one chirps on that like a bird because Obama actually has done his job.  

I think you are confused as to what job fields you can enter in as a Political Science Major.  The majority of the people I know who study this want to get their PhD and then teach at colleges or universities.  Other poli sci majors go into statistical research for various things like electoral studies, demographic shifts, etc.  Another work force sector is in the non-profit realm, which is what I would like to do.  A lot of poli sci majors go into law school, which is another possibility that I am interested in.  Some go into the lobby industry, others do run for office.  But to make the characterization that all poli sci majors are just career politicians in the making is kind of a misleading if you ask me.  It's like me saying that all military service men are simply mindless drones of the "War Machine" when I know that people who serve in the Armed Forces are there for patriotic intentions.

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by: Luke P. @ Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 21:19:12 PM CDT

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The sad part is... (0.00 / 0)

in Nebraska, at least, teachers (especially K-12)and most people in education are the ones that have real world experience meeting and keeping budgets.  They have to in order to keep their families clothed and fed, and provide for the extra expenses related to being a teacher (continuing education, classroom supplies, the basics we use to bring like Kleenexes that a lot of schools can't ask students to bring anymore). I'm the product of a teacher as well, so I've seen this first hand.

In fact, if you really want to get technical, yes, Raimondo created jobs through Behlen, but the reason he was able to hire and find workers with the basic skills (reading, writing, socialization, etc)to perform those jobs is because the employees had 'academics' and teachers that taught them those skills! if you really want to push it...I bet Raimondo employs 'academics' at Behlen in some capacity doing employee training/learning...  

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by: LaceyM @ Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 19:01:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]